Mattson Mini Modular Dual LFO
Thursday, September 20, 2007
62 comments:
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MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
© Matrixsynth - All posts are presented here for informative, historical and educative purposes as applicable within fair use.
MATRIXSYNTH is supported by affiliate links that use cookies to track clickthroughs and sales. See the privacy policy for details.
MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
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bring on the whining!
ReplyDeleteand the home depot electrical outlet boxes.
I hope there is a VC LFO. What's a modular without LFO on LFO action?
ReplyDeletemeh ..
ReplyDeletewhere is the switch that syncs them? or at least clock in?
meh ..
major oversight.
I still don't understand the need for yet another module format. Wouldn't EVERYONE making modular synthesizers benefit from a broader standard of module formats?
ReplyDeletemeh
ReplyDeleteYour opinions are as valid as everyone else's. After all, we're all due our own perspectives. Could you try and communicate them with a bit more diplomacy?
For instance:
You said:
major oversight
You could have said:
It would be great if it did
Basically says the same thing without the attitude. You know - a positive swing on it, a glass half full, optimism. I guess what I'm trying to say (diplomatically) is this and other lists have been plagued for years with a series of jokers, one after another who come and go (usually because their off'd from the lists) who think their opinion actually means more than everyone else's and in order to prove that [to themselves] they express these ideas in a way that pisses people off. And you know what happens - instead of taking their opinion into consideration, most just pass these jokers off as pains in the ass, much like that one obnoxious kid we all grew up with who wouldn't shut up from screaming at birthday parties because he was jealous the kid who's birthday it was was getting more attention than he.
I ask you...do you really want to be one of those jokers? I mean, we've all heard this crap before.
- P
I really just want to hear the justification for yet another module format. As though the market wasn't segmented enough already.
ReplyDeletei'm looking forward to seeing the whole system and like the whole concept of MMM (i hope we'll hear some audio examples soon), but there's one question i can't not ask:
ReplyDeletedid MMM absolutely _had_ to be built in new size standart? building it in, say, eurorack format would've been great advantage. More people would buy it if we knew we won't need another case when we'll want to add modules from other manufacturers. And more people would've bought those modules to expand their modulars.
--
Constantine
There is a reason for the format.
ReplyDelete"There is a reason for the format."
ReplyDeleteGreat, what is it?
It's so we have something to read on Saturday!
ReplyDeleteI hope the frontplate does not say "Phenix penis series"
ReplyDelete>>"There is a reason for the format."
ReplyDelete>Great, what is it?
42! :-))))
--
Constantine
The reason for the format is that u can put each modules in a standalone boxes ?
ReplyDeleteI like the design,and with a nice wooden cab from stephen the will look superb,am sure!
can't wait to see a comple system.
but wouldnt it be nicer to have them be able to be racked with your Doepfer/Frac modules rather than having yet another oddly shaped wooden box in your studio?
ReplyDeletei guess one of the reasons for the new format is george's plan to mainly sell entire systems rather than single modules. new format makes that easier, if you're buying an entire system, with matching enclosure, the format is less relevant.
ReplyDeletebesides that, like george already said, you can buy the module and change the frontpanel to the format of your liking.
since i'm already writing a post...
i think the modules arent really THAT cheap.
i'm guessing there won't be that many EU customers, Doepfer just seems a better option. while i do like the vintage look(&feel) of MMM, i'm sure many people will prefer the more professional and hi-tech vibe of doepfer, that doesn't remind you of the compromises because of the low cost. i for one probably won't be buying it, mainly because of the price (EU residents must add >20% of VAT, customs, shipping... can easily be more than 30%)
i generally like MMM modules (the ones i saw so far), but some descisions really are odd. really, how hard/expensive would it be to offer the 2 LFO's outputs in the S/H module? it's true that the 2 LFOs it features are quite an extra, but if you're already there why not play it to the end.
lack of LFO's VC is also odd. it would be really bad if modules funcionality would be limited because of lack of space on the panels... because of the custom format.
anyways, the modules ARE interesting. i'm looking forward to see what twists bring the VCA, VCO and VCF, i'm sure they'll be special. maybe it will all fall in its place when we see all the modules.
"i guess one of the reasons for the new format is george's plan to mainly sell entire systems rather than single modules. new format makes that easier, if you're buying an entire system, with matching enclosure, the format is less relevant."
ReplyDeleteWell, ok, if that is the aim, but that doesn't make any sense really. The appeal of a modular synthesizer is not just that you get to plug things in whereever you want, it's also that you get to expand it all the time with the particular modules that you want. It's also the business model that every other modular manufacturer (with the exception of Buchla -- LOL), goes by.
It's a Phoenix Series LFO. The original didn't have VC, apparently. I'm sure there'll be more and more modules designed and produced if this thing takes off.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't understand all the whining about format. You can't speak for everybody -- I don't give a damn that it's in a different format.
peter, yes ,the pcbs are parallel.
ReplyDeleteEither way we all have to hold off until Saturday which is fair enough.
ReplyDeleteThere will be good and bad for all involved ('Cause you just can't please everyone).
At best this has made for some very interesting and entertaining posts.
The module format gripe is a really valid one actually. In just the 3.5mm socket range alone you have Eurorack, CMS, Wiard, Blacet/PAiA, and now MMM -- all in formats that don't even have compatible module height let alone width. Those then have to compete with Dotcom, MOTM, Modcan, AS, etc, all incompatible competing formats in the 1/4" realm. It gets silly, and alienates a bunch of other modular owners (who are likely the bulk of the audience). We groan and go "oh boy, ANOTHER format", when we could say, "Oh, neat, I don't need to pay top dollar for another mixer/s&h/LFO/whathaveyou, in my choice of system format that this new series is actually compatible with, I can save on some utility modules and splurge on this crazy voltage controled wave shaper instead!".
ReplyDeleteTo the above poster:
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it there are TWO formats, 12V PSU and 15V PSU. They ALL fit into 19" racks on way or another. This is a new 15V PSU option.
They all fit in what way, you can fab plates that will let anything mount in a 19" rack? Well ok, I could make a wooden box that does the same thing but it's still an awful hassle. The small format modulars vary in strange increments as to their height as well, maddening.
ReplyDeleteI beleive there are also differences among VC levels between the various formats, or at least some of them, as well as small differences like pinouts of the power leads going to the different boards. It's just such an avoidable hassle.
Could someone tell me if mattson sell these modules or just pcb:s or not at sell all. There is no working link to them.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Say what you want about power and or format.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is $$$$ and compatability.
Neither are meshing very well at this point.
"How compatible will this product be with my competitor's product" is not the initial consideration for someone designing a synthesizer. It's very sweet that some modular manufacturers decided to adhere to some arbitrary standard, but it is ridiculous to assume there is some sort of unwritten law that every synth maker from now on will insure that every module will fit whatever stupid format you decided to go with.
ReplyDeleteIf this is how you feel about modulars, you must just be irate about cars, video games, samplers, computers, and just about everything else. WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE MADE EVERYTHING COMPATIBLE???
I take that this synthesizer is MODULAR meaning more than one componenet and a degree of interchangability. Nobody is knocking the synth or the concept or the inventor.
ReplyDeleteThe world is a better place indeed with the pioneers.
But.....for the price and giving consideration to what is already available it's a tough sell.
For those interested in the "Complete System" more power to you.
I'm willing to bet there is a much bigger market for something that will be compatible with the "competition".
What does it hurt to contribute to compatability?
To all,
ReplyDeleteThe format is for a reason. You'll see Saturday. The choices I made are for a reason. Nobody knows the whole story. If you don't like my choice of how I did something. Please, go buy what you want. I'm not forcing anybody to like this and as I said- This is what I have, this is what I'm offering. I heard all the same whining by your parents when I made a synthesizer you could carry. Trust me, I've heard it all before.
I've worked hard doing this, The people that are into it will get one, the ones that cross their arms and stomp their feet probably won't.
I don't care. I think I have something to offer. I love making sounds. I love creating patches. I've been doing it a long time.
More importantly, I love teaching new people how to do this and watch their eyes when they "get it" and they suddenly know what they're doing. I already know by the majority of responses that a lot of you don't "get it"
That's fine, I was young once too.
Whether I did something "this way" or "that way" isn't important. I do things "my" way. I don't copy people. I have no need to. I told you, if you like the other guys stuff- spend your money on them. Go support them, that's what free enterprise is all about. They all make great gear. Much better than this thing.
Besides, I'm offering something different. So, what? everybody try's to find correlations and comparisons. It's all pointless. The "meh" guy, I'm glad your here, welcome. You are actually helping me greatly. More than you realize. Thank you.
The Syntar has a VC LFO, By the way- I chose to do this module, this way, intentionally.
I have a veritable "who's-who" group of very high-profile people in the global synth community who have known about this from the beginning. The've been emailing me privately and telling me to back out of these discussions and just let it ride out. Answer questions Saturday.
Well, Thanks for the advice. And, I really appreciate the support and encouragement from my "confidants". They are the ones who talked me into doing this.
I won't back away from the discussions. I'm here to answer valid questions, I'm here to teach prople who want to learn. I can teach you how to do things with analog that you never dreamed you could do. This is the reason I am here. The modular isn't important. It's a means of expanding your thought process and abilities. And, for the record, I can't play keyboards worth a damn, even after all of these years.
I love all the guesswork you guys are doing. Pretty good guesses. Keep it up.
Anyway. I'm here for all of you who are willing to explore this wonderful art.
The people who support what I am starting here will support me and purchase my system. I'm not out to compete with anybody, The modular is a small part of a bigger picture. As I said, I won't be able to handle large quantities of orders, I'm not expecting to "take over and grab the analog synth market shares". God no. I want to make some systems for some people who want them.
That said, Thank you all. I'll go get a cup of coffee now.
George Mattson
I think this is accomplishing exactly what you set out for it to accomplish.
ReplyDeleteIf you'll notice the post counts, this one (MMM Synth)it's getting many more comment posts than the rest.
It's a good thing whether it's drawing "Nasties out of the woodwork" or getting someone to post that has never posted before.
A powerful thing-the internet.
I definitely think it shows areas of interest in the synth community for what it's worth.
I'm still looking forward to Saturday and George is right on in what his reasons are for doing this.
To the people that are whinning about the front pannels, have you ever used a vintage Serge system? That stuff is ghetto! but its still amazing. People should just chill out and wait to see the bigger picture.
ReplyDeleteSymmetry: Changes the "triangle" to anything from ramp to saw, with triangle in the middle? (If so, "Triangle Out" is a misnomer. As is "Ext. Osc. In" on the S&H, which 2 posts already said.)
ReplyDeleteDoes Symmetry change the pulse width of the Square out, too? That would rock.
What patience you have to keep up with the Synth Comic Book Guys. The trolling thus far can be summarized:
ReplyDelete1. It's different then what came before. Why not the same? We want the same.
2. You are charging for parts, fine, that's $20 (har) but you want money for your time? Ludicrous. My mom lets me live in the basement for free if I clean the cat box, so I can live on $70/month. Why can't you?
3. XYZ synth, that is different, has feature 'W'. Why does your different synth not have feature 'W'? You will fail without feature 'W'.
4. Your business will fail because, as an armchair tycoon, I can tell you things your spreadsheet can't.
Its a wonder we got to the moon with people like this running around. I mean, even if it was stupid idea, and you were on track to lose your ass, wouldn't a true geek be on board just to see what kind of wild gear bankrupted you?
I thought I had worn off modulars for good, but, man, these are some nice looking modules.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait to see everything George
suitcase modular?
ReplyDelete24 modules = 4 rows of 6 modules...
maybe?
Symmetry,
ReplyDeleteYes, you are correct. The outputs are labelled for the center base waveform,
Yes, the square goes from positive pulse (almost no pulse) to the same extreme negative pulse with square as a symmetrical center.
The upper LFO is a lower range than the lower LFO. I was thinking about naming it NSLFO for "Not so LFO" But, my humor wasn't appreciated when I labelled the end of the Syntar neck as "Frog Lips". Well, Thats what it looked like.
George Mattson
Bravo Psylux!
ReplyDeleteVery astute characterization of the situation. :D :D
You forgot:
5. This has feature X. I don't know what feature X is so I'll ignore it and consider it useless.
"There is no working link to them"
ReplyDeleteYah I'm with you! the website is totally down and offline. They must of had a server crash or probably got hacked.
meh ... sync the lfos or allow for an external frequency.
"There is no working link to them"
ReplyDeleteYah I'm with you! the website is totally down and offline. They must of had a server crash or probably got hacked.
meh ... sync the lfos or allow for an external frequency."
YOU sync the LFOs or allow for an external frequency, yourself. I doubt George is going to cater to the pissy ramblings of an anonymous troll incapable of effectively expressing themselves.
And the website isn't live until Saturday. George already told everyone that.
I think I figured it out. The last thing he is going to show us is the "power supply" Probably in a case with a bunch of other stuff such as a controller ( keyboard, ribbon,etc.), midi (he said the last thing he showed us would be digital) and maybe some other suprises I can't think of.
ReplyDeleteAm I close?
"sync the lfos or allow for an external frequency"
ReplyDeletehe's right, maybe you old geezers don't realize you're totally missing the youth market who are making more money than you ever will by not recognizing the fact that its all about syncing beats! don't be trogs, its a simple fix and will make this module more vauable and useful. just put in a jack for the frequency of the lfos and a three way switch for syncing them. it fits right with your design.
these modules look great! i like the minimal design a lot.
ReplyDeleteGeezers Unite!.... Crush the whiney basement dwellers rebellion with your monster analog phenolic knobs ! Long live the MMM revolution!
ReplyDeleteI'm with aether. I think that the surprise is going to be some sort of integrated controller.
ReplyDeleteGeorge, are these modules all controllable by front panel controls only or does your system use any kind of bus?
Maybe he expects you to use a vco as a vclfo. It's not like they're going to cost any more than any other module. Just because it doesn't say "LFO" on it, doesn't mean you can't use it as one!
ReplyDeleteMaybe the non-phoenix LFO module will be different. AFAIK, the phoenix ones are clones of the old modules.
ReplyDeleteNo Bus,
ReplyDelete100% patch cords
George Mattson
Also, keep in mind,
ReplyDeleteThis extended review of the modules are of the basic "key word" core modules. That will be initially available. This gets us started. If some people like the beginning, we can go from there.
The VCO and filter will be posted today. I think that the majority of you will find fault in them. OK, I bexpect it after this week.
That concludes the core modules after today.
Tomorrow, we just post the power supply. (because it fills 2 spaces)
Then Saturday, we'll show them all together in one big so what? package.
George Mattson
What kind of knobs are those? They look like the pot shafts were dipped in Plastikote. I'm still looking for super low profile knobs like this for one of my DIY projects.
ReplyDeleteI don't think those are knobs. They look like standard shaft covers for pots.
ReplyDeleteHmm, what are standard shaft covers? And where does one get them? And are they available for splined pot shafts? I need 27 of these things.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the tip, btw.
Go to mocap.com. Find what you need. order samples on-line. They send you a bag of 100 for free as samples.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Mattson
Hey, that was cool website.
ReplyDeletewe ask for knobs and we get a bag of condoms.. thanks a lot trog!
ReplyDeletemeh ..
You wouldn't want to chafe your dainty rosebud with a big knob, Mr. Meh.
ReplyDelete"I can teach you how to do things with analog that you never dreamed you could do"
ReplyDeleteYou may have built our parents modulars, but we could teach you how to do things with analog you never dreamed of also.
"I can teach you how to do things with analog that you never dreamed you could do."
ReplyDeletemake the damn lfos syncable.
I think this is a welcome change from the typical rectangular module format. I'm really interested to see the entire system/story. Even though i'll never be able to afford them probably. It's still nice to see people taking chances on their products.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure mister meh has had his share of knobs in his lifetime. LOL
ReplyDeleteHey George Mattson, thanks for the link to Mocap. You have no idea how long I looked for exactly this but found nothing. I also asked on Analog Heaven, Synth DIY, etc and the only suggestion I got was Plastikote (albeit a good one).
ReplyDeleteNow I can finally finish this cool little device.
Your modules look very nice btw. Best wishes for a healthy sales run.
Ya gotta luv these arm chair synth experts who barley have the motivation to make a peanut butter & jelly sandwich, telling the guy how he should build the synth that he's taken the effort to design and now build, lol, you guys should step back and listen to yourselve's, you may resemble your remarks.
ReplyDeleteWho's to say there aren't other LFOs? Why are people so full of crap? If the system dosen't interest you, fine. Why all the pissing around?
ReplyDeleteI bet it's because with 9 out of 10 a 1500 dollar system is way out of reach, considering their weekly allowance.
ReplyDeleteAnd.. if you can't have your own sand castle, there's nothing better than stomp on someone else's.
"I bet it's because with 9 out of 10 a 1500 dollar system is way out of reach, considering their weekly allowance.
ReplyDeleteAnd.. if you can't have your own sand castle, there's nothing better than stomp on someone else's"
Well said.