Mattson Mini Modular Glide
Wednesday, September 19, 2007
43 comments:
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MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
© Matrixsynth - All posts are presented here for informative, historical and educative purposes as applicable within fair use.
MATRIXSYNTH is supported by affiliate links that use cookies to track clickthroughs and sales. See the privacy policy for details.
MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
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I'm looking forward to this. A lot of the options seemed designed based on actual modular experience, rather than simply cloning previous modulars. I particularly like the portamento selectable as either uni or bidirectional.
ReplyDeleteI hope it will be at the North West Synth meeting so that I can check it out in person.
Actually George and I talked about you possibly demo'ing the system on your video blog at some point. Interested?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely interested.
ReplyDeleteI could do a tutorial in which I do a song using just the modular, and then do still shots illustrating the modular routings for each sound.
Just with a lot better pacing than my first video. :)
I'll lend you mine and in the meanwhile I can get to work on converting your Pro-One if you're still interested.
ReplyDeletei like very much the design of these modules.
ReplyDelete@inside synthesis "I particularly like the portamento selectable as either uni or bidirectional."
ReplyDeleteNot to pick nits but the Sythesizers.com slew limiter does this, as well as having a second CV-in (low signal means no slew, high signal means slew).
He's not saying that nothing else can do this, he's just saying that he likes that THIS can.
ReplyDeletevery nice module, i love the lin/exp switch, also the separate direction glide switch is a cool feature.
ReplyDeleteso what's next on the menu?
@heath - He said "rather than cloning previous modulars". Which it technically is.
ReplyDeletewell that's pretty silly, this uses VCO's too, I wouldn't consider that a clone, would you? Seems like a useful feature. He's not cloning. He's not saying "and this will have an awesome moog filter!"
ReplyDeleteit's amazing how some people just want to pick on other peoples efforts...personally , i have no need for these things , but it will open the door to so many who cant afford the more expensive stuff. why is this so hard to understand? this is a great thing. rock on george.
ReplyDeletewhich is why it's called nit picking
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments guys. I really appreciate them.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in a previous post. I revealed that the Phoenix Series modules are re-designs of the core circuits of my long-gone Syntar. If it doesn't say Phoenix Series, I designed a new module to facilitate signal and CV routing in modular form.
This glide is the exact glide circuit that was housed in the neck of the Syntar which I designed in 1978.
So, If Synth.com designed it before that, I'll quit picking nits :)
So, before any of this heads that direction, all of these circuits are mine. I don't have any need nor desire to copy anybody.
I always liked this glide.
The next module is just an Envelope Generator.
George Mattson
awesome, bring it on!
ReplyDeleteFor the record, the dotcom lag module doesn't have log and lin modes, the up/down/both switching is different, and - as noted - has a CV on/off switch.
ReplyDeleteNo 2 modulars are truly alike, sort of like snowflakes. (OK, 2 snowflakes can actually be alike. Damn you, scientists!)
Different flavors are good.
"Not to pick nits but the Sythesizers.com slew limiter does this"
ReplyDeleteThis is the Phoenix Series. Where was Syntheizers.com in 1978? Zygotes .. the lot of you.
Just to give you guys an itinerary. Here's how the posts are scheduled. I purposely started simple (how basic is a blank, square piece of metal?) and then posted the typical, so what? modules and continued to moving on to the meaty stuff.
ReplyDeleteI posted the buffer early because I knew that the inexperienced guys wouldn't have a clue to it's value in modular patching and would need to be discussed.
So the rest of today will be the Envelope Generator and the Sample and Hold.
Tomorrow, DLFO, VCO and VCF
Friday, Power module
Saturday, we'll post the whole conglomeration and links to the web site.
It's slow, but essential that everybody studies each module and understands the concept.
I never said the modules were "new and exciting" or, they're the hottest thing since sliced bread. I won't even claim that the VCO's can track 5+ octaves within 2 cents.
But, they're good, solid, basic modules that get the job done. You can't get any more analog than this-well, since that has been a subject of intense debate, let's just say it's analog.
The premise isn't ground-breaking, it's price breaking, I'm sure we can come up with a good euphamism for a chopped modular.
I'm not new at this. I know that the VCO's need to be versatile and be able to track and have some degree of stability, I know that the filter is the most important module for determining "the sound" of any system. Give me some credit.
I also know that the newbies and inexperienced people get hung up on wanting a bunch of oscillators and filters without thinking it through on what it is they want to do. It's like saying you have to have a Strat, or a Les Paul and gotta have the big Marshall, etc, etc. People get sucked into hype and advertising and quit using their brain.
Companies pay other people huge amounts of cash to burn brand-names into peoples brains. The consumer also pays for that expense.
People that have been supporting me throughout the development of this system tell me they want the "basic" system and tell me which modules they want to add. The majority of them have been caught in the hype-trap and I can tell when they have been.
Their wish-list for extra modules is usually:
3 VCO's, 2 filters, 2 envelope generators....
I tell them my wish list is:
VCO
Mixer
Mixer
Mixer
Buffer
VCA
Why? Because I can take the CV generating signals and run them to a buffer, split them and send the outputs to 3 different mixers.
assign the outputs of each mixer to a specific modulation parameter, either pitch, timbre or amplitude. (or-VCO, VCF,VCA)Then, I now have independent mixing of all of the available CV's ready to modify the VCO, VCF or VCA. The mixer in the basic system I would use mix all of the VCO waveform outputs.
I'd have an extra VCA because it is a voltage controlled gain cell. I can put anything in the audio input (even CV's) and any 0-5V control (pedal, other CV) into the "envelope" input and process the signal with anything I want. Plus, sent the signal anywhere I want. Newbies always think of VCA's for audio only. They can be used for so much more. Especially in a real-time performance situation.
So, I apologize for dragging this out and creating all of this suspense. But, even with a budget system, If you make the wrong module choices, you can spend money on module that you can't use if you haven't thought it through.
I'm trying to help you to know this.
Thanks guys.
George Mattson
Regarding the business model: there are others out there that take your money and then don't ship for a year or more. You see them working on lots of new whiz bang developments, cleaning out their attic and selling old books, and lab equipment and 'surprise' boxes, etc, but they never seem to have time to ship you the product you already paid for one plus years ago. They seem to have no concern for this, nor any conscience about it whatsoever. On top of that the community accepts the behavior, as if to say, "when i get a crumb, i'll be happy to get it".
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to do this please have a higher standard. Don't offer things that aren't in stock. Don't hold people's money for years before you're ready to ship. Be transparent about what your lead times are. Don't say something will ship on a date, and then slip that date 10 times.
I hope your operation is the model of customer satisfaction :-)
okay...everyone....all together now....say....CYNDUSTRIES
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteokay...everyone....all together now....say....CYNDUSTRIES
9:27 AM
izzat you, Paul?
the point being not to start a thread of manufacturer bashing, but to propose a better way (can I say ethical? no, that's probably too far) of dealing with customers.
ReplyDeleteHey knobby dude,
ReplyDeleteThanks for bringing that up.
I guess now would be a good time to discuss this. But, it's a brain twister.
I've lurked on the forums and lists for years and I know all of the concerns and bitches people have. Besides, I'm a consumer too.
I'm getting back into this because frankly, I need a job. There's a market for something I know intimately and it seems to be a good time to finally give my many years of experience and knowledge back to the synth community that has supported my interests for so long.
I have developed this using my own money and some real good supporters who actually bought the first 2 prototypes at full price in good faith, sight unseen or with just the complete faith that I can do this.
I've told all of you my peeves about paying for something that has no essential purpose other than looking "pretty"
While trying to determine if I could even do this at the price I thought was fair, I developed a massive database program that allows me to view every detail of the cost, manufacturing and labor times to build these things. I could adjust the "price", labor rate, unit quantities and see immediately the overall effect that the change would have. I imported all of the quantity price break schedules from the vendors for each component. If a certain quantity of component I need exceeds the price I'd pay for the next price break up, it flags me and lets me know that I can essentially get "more for less" than what I'd pay at the current quantity.
It's a pretty good tool and playing with it pretty much defined how I had to do this.
In the beginning...famous last words. I have to sell basic systems. I just can't sell individual modules right away until we get things going. Then I can start stockpiling additional parts to be able to make individual modules available as a lone sale. The basic system is a pretty well rounded system. Sort of a basic building block. It consists of:
The case and power supply (capable of holding 22 modules- 24 if it wasn't for the power supply eating up 2 spaces)
DLFO
Sample & Hold
4X 1X2 buffer
Noise
4X Mixer
Envelope Generator
VCO
VCF
VCA
Glide
Then there's 12 spaces for additional modules of your choice that can be ordered at the same time. Otherwise, they'll have the blanks in them.
In order to answer your question:
I will be selling basic systems and any additional modules desired for the system to fill in any blanks. I actually give a $5.00 discount per module because we're swapping a blank panel with one on a module. Why charge you for a blank when you don't need it? Hell, I can use it elsewhere.
My mega-spreadsheet tells me I have to have 10 basic systems ordered before I can produce them, I can make a fair wage, get the parts and get them out the door. At 9 units, I have to pay you to get them. (the whole parts quantity price break thing)
It takes 2 weeks from production start to just wait for the parts deliveries.
It takes 1 man, working 40 hour weeks, 5.77 weeks to make 10 units. So, with the 2 week lead time, I'm going to claim that
from "production start" to shipping will be 2 months.
The very first production run I'm going to call as 3 months because there are production jigs and procedures to figure out. The only way to determine that is by jumping in and finding out where the bottlenecks are.
I'm going to post a production lot as "open" on the web site. As the orders come in, the lot fills up. The first lot will be 10 units- period. As soon as the lot fills, that lot closes and moves to production status and the next lot opens for orders.
The next lot fills while the first lot is in production. 2 weeks before the first lot ships, the second lot closes and moves to production status-primarily to use the 2 week parts lead time while we're finishing the first bunch. As soon as the 2nd lot closes, the third lot opens for orders. etc, etc...
As long as there are at least 10 orders for basic systems,I can close a lot. I can handle up to 50 per lot. I just grab some old buddies to help me out. 1 man for every 10 units. This will allow me to complete a production lot in 2 months. So, the business can expand and contract based on the consumer demand. Real flexible.
The production status for every lot in process will be posted on the web site and be available 24/7. The status will be updated daily. So, you know which lot you bought into, you will know it's status at any time. No more "I sent you money 800 years ago..." type stuff.
I had to set up this "toll gate" to alleviate your very concern.
And, bottom line, If I can't get 10 orders every 2 months, I close down and go find a job. And I really, really hate working for other people. I'd rather do this. Any partial lots waiting for close would just get their money back, less PayPal fees.
I'll add here that for the last 18 years, I have been working as either an equipment engineer, equipment engineering maintenance or process engineer in the semiconductor or CD/DVD manufacturing industries. My job was to either fix dead production gear to get production moving, or develop methods to cut costs, expedite production, reduce production process times or find ways to do things better, faster, and cheaper.
I think I have some experience to bring to the table. Oh, and my old buddies that can help me out if needed...They're my old crew.
I'm brain fried. But, this is how we have to do it. It's fair and it works. We all win.
George Mattson
Interesting business model - and probably really well-suited for a boutique market. If you can really get the price down to a very attractive level, I don't see you working for anyone else in the near future.
ReplyDeleteI understand your point about leaking the info out module by module. However, sitting on the cost of the system may backfire as expectations spiral out of control.
i'm holding back saying anything negative until i see the complete
ReplyDeleteproduct. If it's not expensive and makes cool sounds i don't see what there is to complain about. I just wish I could se the whole sdamn thing already.
I'm not sitting on the price, I just didn't want people to say "oh man-this and that-these guys, etc." Even putting the price down without knowing the whole story is just as risky.
ReplyDeleteBut, it's no big secret, I'll just blurt it out.
Basic system $1.595.00
Modules-doesn't matter which one: $105.00ea
But, Now I've told you. I don't want to hear any negative comments until you have the whole picture. There's still some surprises coming.
George Mattson
George...
ReplyDeleteCan you say how many modules will be in the basic system?
I'm thinking maybe 12-14 to allow case and... 'extra unknowns'.
Very cool George.
And I take that on Saturday we'll be able to get a look at a complete unit??
ReplyDeleteI really think you'd do well to offer individual units although you have given your reasons for not doing so.
ReplyDeletehe said he will, just not right away.
ReplyDeletesounds like a reasonable business approach. i was thinking about this last night and thought of something similar, where you'd let the pipe fill enough so that price vs cost differential would allow you to build a bigger lot than ordered, thereby giving you some inventory.
ReplyDeleteinventory though is risk, so i see the wisdom of your plan
You are using updated designs from the Syntar for the synth.
ReplyDeleteWhat about an alternative like offering pcb's of your modules for those who would rather utilize their own panel designs and or requirements.
For example completeing your VCO pcb as an addition to an existing Eurorack or Frac set up?
This is just a suggestion...no hate, no negativity at all.
I would certainly buy a pcb to complete as an addition to my existing modular.
Of course if you're subcontracting smt work that shoots that idea in the foot.
ReplyDeleteI take you are not though given your business model description.
The preorder-prepay ideal would seem to work for the pcb concept as well.
I completety disagree with you about one OSC as a standard rather than two. Using multiple outs from one osc is no fun and forbids all the two osc abilities like sync, FM and detuned thick patches.
ReplyDeleteThe price puts it squarely in competition with the Doepfer Basic Mini System at $1450 (10 Modules including Midi and 2 Oscs). Your individual module prices are lower than theirs but filling out your rack puts it at $2795 whereas the 24 Module Doepfer expanded system is $2350 (no Midi).
But, Now I've told you. I don't want to hear any negative comments until you have the whole picture. There's still some surprises coming.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to this George, but on this blog you'd get negative comments if you were selling $10 bills for five bucks.
Yeah, throw in another Oscillator at $1595 and you got a deal.
ReplyDeleteI gave the "basic system" module list up above in a previous post. That fills 12 spots. There's 12 more spaces available for whatever you want to stick there. So, the box holds 24 modules.
ReplyDeleteI will say, Synthwood was kind enough to do my boxes for me. Mine are OK boxes, Really below Synthwood standards.I told them to do it that way. :)
But, There will be an opportunity (for all of you flashy-gotta be pretty guys) To have Synthwood make the boxes for you out of whatever exotic wood and shade you prefer. You'd be hiring them on the side and they'd ship the pieces to me. Then, I just use your box to put the modules in.
I really don't have a mechanism in place to do single modules without them being ordered as part of the system. The whole multiple component price break issue. Otherwise, It's not economically feasable. I thought about "nesting" individual modules within a production lot run but, I don't currently have a mechanism set up to track them, or even a good way to package them. We'll get there. There's still a lot to figure out. I still have to try to write up the operators manual for each module for the web site and that deadline is looming pretty soon.
It's all start-up growing pains. Any of you who have ever manufactured anything before already know the endless, mundane details that need to be dealt with.
I feel I should be fine-tuning the modules but haven't had a chance to do that. So, the first run will be REAL fun. After we've suffered our bruises, we'll have it down pretty good.
I may have to have all of you sign up on my BBS and regurgitate our discussions to the guys coming on board. Sort of a live FAQ. I am supposed to be writing all of this for the web site anyway. So, cover me if I'm late.
And, yes. The whole banana as a system will be shown Saturday.
I might add...Saturday, I'm taking a break and going out of town. I need to relax. I'll get back to it on Sunday. I haven't had a break in 5 months.(well, jury duty for 3 weeks, hardly a break)
One other thing. I'm really excited about the power supply that will be posted Friday- weird, huh? Told you I was a geek. :)
George Mattson
Rewire,
ReplyDelete1 oscillator isn't a standard. It's just part of the basic system. If you need another VCO. Order one.
BTW- you haven't seen my oscillator.
Mmm- aren't they supposed to be heard?
Oh, yeah. No, this is all through-hole component stuff. It takes me 2 hours to type these responses. I'd take forever doing a SMT board. :)
George
Oh yeah, the pcb guy,
ReplyDeleteThe modules are $105.00. Buy one, remove the panel and make a panel in another format.
There's some guy that makes mock panels in other formats. I have been thinking about contacting him and working something so there will be something in the future if there is customer demand for it.
To the Doepfer. As I said, no comments until you have the whole story- you'll understand. Especially when you see the power supply.
Sorry, forgot to sign the last post
ReplyDeleteGeorge Mattson
George, go take a break, already! Matrix, we want to see the Envelope!
ReplyDeleteYeah, dude, where's the EG?
ReplyDelete:)
doepfer is really overrated, don't you guys think?
ReplyDelete