I posted the following to the Waldorf list in response to someone leaving a snide comment asking "where's the music" in regards to Cikira's synth shots. I see someone left one in the comments of the previous posts as well. This seems to be a reoccurring theme in response to people with larger collections of synths. I thought it would be fun to put up my reply along with a poll on what others do. Feel free to comment. In the end, for me, people do different things with their synths and I can respect that. What I can't respect are people that are inconsiderate of others and feel the need to tell others what they should be doing just to justify their own perspectives on things...
"The thought of people dictating what others should or shouldn't do is kind of sad. Not everyone enjoys the composing part of making music. My favorite thing to do? Grab a synth off a shelf and explore it. The music comes out of the exploration, not the other way around for me. And 99.9% of the time I do not record it because the music comes in spurts and the focus is definitely not in making a piece of music but listening to the sound and the effects of different parameters. Does "music" come out of it? Usually yes, but it's different. The sound drives it.
The following is a loaded question, but why would anyone who only wants to make music have that many synths? Note that I'm not saying that people who like to compose music shouldn't have that many synths. What I am saying is if you do have that many synths, you probably appreciate them in a slightly different way - not just as sound sources for making music, but rather for the love of synths and all the different characteristics of each.
This always reminds me of the difference between the art of synthesis and the art of keyboard playing. They are different. I'm reminded each month when I get my copy of Keyboard Magazine. I see synths, but it's about 90% music composition and keyboards, not synthesizers. Thank you Mitchell Sigman! His column on synthesis techniques is about the only bit I'm guaranteed to enjoy every month. That and the reto synth section as well as Peter Kirn's articles (Peter also runs CDM). The rest might as well be on pianos... The point of this is there is an appreciation of synthesis I think most of us enjoy that is very different than the focus you might have in composing a piece of music. I like to think Cikira shares this enthusiasm for synths with the rest of us. In my book, anyone that makes the comment of "show me the music" is either ignorant of what synthesis is about or is just trolling." That or just plain inconsiderate. So are you a synthesist/ sound explorer, musician, or both?
Friday, September 07, 2007
38 comments:
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MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
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MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
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Using synths to make music is one thing. Loving synths for the sake of synthesis and sound is also another thing. When a collection is so extensive that it starts to acquire 'doubles' of numerous lavish items, perhaps it ventures into the realm of collector/admirer/museum. If the owner can afford it, who are we to tell them otherwise. Let's just enjoy the photos.
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh... Cikira's collection is crazily amazing. It seems like she has almost everything I want! Woots!
ReplyDeleteI am firmly in the "both" camp. I have the most fun with the sound-driven improv world, but I also use synths for more traditional compositional purposes.
ReplyDeleteI like getting an instrument and really learning it. I tend to change my setups very slowly compared to some of my peers. I'll go for a burst of new instrumentation, then stick with that for years and years, until I can play it with my eyes closed. I like to explore the nooks and crannies of an instrument.
One observation about Cikira's collection: no modulars!!! Then again, I guess she has enough stuff to consider something like a Q+ a special purpose module.
I don't thing there is a difference between "exploring sound" and "making music." Would one suggest that the "explorations" I have posted with my Evolver, Octave CAT, etc., are somehow not music? There is a tendancy of a lot of musicians and music lovers to be very conservative and decry things they don't like or don't understand as being "not music," and I have certainly had that conversation many times...
ReplyDeleteI knew a guy in high school who had a huge record collection, but no turntable. In fact, he had never heard any of his records. True it's his business, and he obviously had a different motive for his collection than most people, but I can't help thinking it's a bit bizarre. I feel the same way about Cikira. She can do what she wants, but by the same token, I'm also free to think it's bizarre.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think that amount of synths would really be a creative block for me, I prefer to carefully choose my equipment based on a specific need, for example a couple of mono's, a couple of polys, a few drum machines, a modest modular, a sampler, a sequencer and thats about it. This allows me to reasonably cover all the bases (mmmm basses!) but not to let the gear get in the way of whats in my head.
ReplyDeleteI tend to buy boutique or classic instruments as very few current products from the big 3 (Yamaha, Roland, Korg) inspire me. I also like to mod my gear to add extra features and give my music a unique sound as far as is possible.
But I guess there are plenty of people who like to collect every new synth, and they are perfectly justified to do what they want to with their money, and whether they do or don't make music with it is entirely up to them.
But if I had the money to have all that gear I would just have custom stuff made for me :)
"why do i play synths"
ReplyDeletetwo words - Kimber Benton
http://starlight.itgo.com/kimberpics.htm
I love Synths. Actually I got only one "real" synth. Probably would be more if possible but for making music it can be enough. Ive seen people making music with no intrument at all and it blew me away :-)
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand ive also seen people with a bunch of synth and it blew me away also. So I think the number of possibilities is not imparatively a faktor of quality. For some people it is and I respect that.
I started with acoustuc music and Im happy when I can focus on a small number of things.
If I had a module system and a room full of synths and studio and all, for me that would still be one synth :-) :-)
To give my cats a place to sit.
ReplyDeleteI tend to fall into the both category, although I would not describe myself as a "musician" in the traditional sense, I can write and play tunes but my musical theory and actual playing skills are almost zero, thanks to sequencers I have had records out that people seem to enjoy though.
ReplyDeleteCatsynth - Unfortunately there are plenty of people who consider themselves musicians because they can play "Lucky Man" on their Yamaha Tyros, you can normally spot them as they are wearing an ELP/YES t-shirt and tend to work in music shops demoing Casio's, dental hygene is low on their list of priorities and they are usually single and in their 40's to 60's. Just ignore them because they are losers :)
People like Cikira have every right to buy all the synths in the world, and we are only assuming she doesnt release any music, but I am sure she does, and if she doesnt, BIG FUQIN DEAL!
ReplyDeleteI wish I had her collection :-)I wish I had her house and I wish I had her free time :-)
oh and I will add I use to release records round the world under many names, there was such rush inside to be recording making sounds and getting stuff out. I could never understand people who bought synths and didnt release music, but now I am more happy to just noodle,if something great comes out I may want it released, no urge, just phun
ReplyDeleteI am attracted, magpie-like, to synths, not unlike Amanda (Cikira) is. They are artful, colorful, shiny, technologically wondrous mystery boxes, each with unique potentials. We are collectors of these prizes. The more, the better.
ReplyDeleteIt's fun making noise, music, and experimentation with synths, and it's also fun just owning them. Sometimes I'll dig deep into a synth to squeeze out as much hidden potential as possible. Other times I just turn off all the lights just to watch everything glow and blink like an invasion of UFOs. Owning lots of synths means you own lots of potential. Power. ALL THE POWER... MINE TO COMMAND!
Ahem. But yeah, that's a good feeling. Just knowing you can do anything is a great mindset. Definitely gets your ass out of bed in the morning.
I don't know why else these things bring me such great, profound, inexplicable joy, but whatever the reasons, justifiable or not, ridiculous or not, I do know that there are MANY. Many, many reasons. So I'm definitely in the "both" camp here, too.
When I write "music" it is more like a scene in an act, in a play..
ReplyDelete..versus a whole act (track)
..or a whole play (album)
I'm just not interested in writing "completed" stuff. For that, all I need is a debit card and a place to shop.
Play synths??? I just assumed that everyone here just collected them and stacked them up in their trophy room like I do.
ReplyDeleteI collected stamps as a kid for quite a few years before I ever mailed a letter.
ReplyDeleteI've been amazed with synth sounds since Frankestien was released in 1972. I was kid then and I'm still a kid now some 35 years later. My modest eclectic synth collection continues to amaze me. I also like to write IDM in my YES t-shirt.;)
ReplyDeleteSome people have huge guitar collections, or car collections, or gun collections and never use any of the items of their collection. Museums always have more art in their possession than they display. I know people who are constantly modding or upgrading their PCs for reasons that seem odd to me. Collecting synths is more interesting to me than collecting decorative plates or hummel figurines.
ReplyDeleteLike a lot of compulsive synth collectors, I found I actually get more music done if I have less gear instead of more. But I still like having more!!
Cikira spends a LOT of time perfecting and upgrading her maxWerk composition software. It seems to me that when she's feelng creative she works on that and when she wants to kill time she goofs around learning her synths. So right now she's not putting out finished compositions, but she's not trying to. That's just my interpretation from having been to her secret hideout.
Here's a couple myths I can bust about her:
1. She CAN play instruments
2. She does actually play her gear (but obviously with so much, it could be a while before she plays with a prticular item)
3. She is definitely a woman.
Something else that might put her in perspective is that all that gear is in her living room. No TV or stereo or ipod in sight (I haven't seen her bedroom though). The town she lives in offers zero entertainment other than hiking in the desert. So her gear is all of her main entertainment.
I'd like my gear in the living room, but my wife has a say and more sense than me, so that's not going to happen.
Hey birdflu, there is a seperate thread a couple posts back specifically about Cikira and her gear. If you want to defend her, do it there since nobody in this thread has spoken ill of her.
ReplyDeleteI use this planet's sound key technology to open up a dimensional gateway to planet Eternia, allowing Skeletor and his minions to enter and dominate this world.
ReplyDeleteCikira's collection is astounding...needs a couple more synths in white...definitely needs a modular...please someone tell her to acquire a Modcan B series...
ReplyDeletepesky troll
I think I fit into a 3rd category:
ReplyDeleteI've slowly come to the realization that I collect synths and drum machines to repair or modify them, or at least see if they can be modded in some way that expands or improve their capabilities.
I realized this after I got a few synths, reanimated or improved them, then found that I didn't really thrill at playing them, but actually started looking forward to the next rescue/revision.
and, while bending can be fun, it's the useful mods that are more satisfying to me. perhaps even weirder - I don't really have any interest in building a modular synth.
so I guess I collect them, not to play them, but to hack into them.
Wow, I didn't think I'd be the only one to say this, but I count myself as a musician, foremost, not a sound explorer. Electronic control interfaces are more interesting to me as something to explore than timbres which are unavailable in the acoustic palette. I'm not a purist by any means, and I definitely appreciate the skill and talent that goes into sound crafting, but I personally get much more of a thrill out of the more traditional bits... melody, harmony, chordal progression, syncopation, and orchestration. What brought me to the world of synths? The editing and multitracking power of sequencing, which let me construct music bigger than I could play by myself. Anyone else here like that?
ReplyDeleteSynthesis is my retreat from the world, my therapy. If I need to recharge, I just pick a synth and start tweaking. It's a form of meditation.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I'm reminded that Ralf Hütter called Florian Schneider a "Sound Fetishist." I suppose that matches me as well, I use sound as a sensual instrument, not necessarily in a manner people would call musical. Each patch I make is a little world unto itself and many are just as pleasant to me standing alone as they are in a mix.
It's also nice to see what kind of lives these instruments make for themselves when you set them up a particular way and let them take it away. Right now, I have my SH-32 set up on a drone with a high res filter on a slow LFO sweep that highlights the harmonics of the OSCs, but it doesn't sound like a program, it sounds very natural and soothing. You can pick up little subtle nuances that are different every time. It's not just like creating a world, it's creating life through sound. What makes it really interesting is that I often have no idea where I wanna go. Sure, sometimes it's "Okay, I wanna make the bass from Jarre's Equinoxe," but it's a wonderful journey, wherever I go. Any way it happens, planned or not, I like it.
div, I think that fits into what I was saying, where there really so no separation between timbre and other aspects of music, or between synthesis and control. Sequencers and "algorithmic" composition are just synthesis at another level.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, I'm still a little frustrated by the separation between "music", i.e., what people are referring to as composition or performance and such, and making sounds on their synthesizers. Anyone want to explain to me why they consider these separate?
I have been playing electronic music since 1977. I've gone through hundreds of pieces of gear, guitars, amplifiers, pedals, synths, etc. I'm not, nor was I ever, a professional musician. I've done some fairly recognized work in sound engineering, and have had various bands that did various things, but I work on the technology side of business, and thats how it will always be.
ReplyDeleteHowever I've always been a tinkerer, and despite my love of guitars and tube amplifiers, for some reason synths, especially analog, or very powerful digital emulations of analog, seem to be what I like to collect and play with.
Sometimes I make some music, sometimes I explore sounds. Sometimes I jam at clubs and parties, sometimes its just me and my daughter late night wandering through soundscapes from the gear and seeing what happens.
In the end, life is short, we do what is interesting. Someday I'll be an old graybeard, like the ones tha taught me, and young people will stop by to marvel at my collection and I'll help produce them and be the old man at their parties, just like the old electronic music profs used to stop by mine.
And so the tradition will continue, and till will march on.
Steve Electronics
http://www.streetelectronics.com
"why do i play synths"
ReplyDeletetwo words - Kimber Benton
I use this planet's sound key technology to open up a dimensional gateway to planet Eternia, allowing Skeletor and his minions to enter and dominate this world.
Aaggghhhh! I HATE THE 80S!!!!
She had a top ten hit last year. Oh wait, that was Shakira.
ReplyDeleteIt's all about the right tool for the job. You want to make a hole in hard concrete? Get a hammer-drill. Want one that won't shatter when it falls off the ladder? Get a Hilti. Can you sand with a hammer-drill? Nope. Better get a sander.
Maybe that's a bad analogy. There are lots of garages full of unused tools across Planet Earth.
Regarding paring down: The notion that one instrument can replace a roomful of instruments is a fallacy, but it has led people to invent wonderful things: the pipe-organ, the RCA Mark II, the Buchla Electric Music Box, the Yamaha GX-1. We know they're wonderful because Bach, Milton Babbitt, Morton Subotnick & Stevie Wonder spent quality time with only those instruments for a sizeable chunk of their careers.
But they also knew their way around orchestras & recording studios (except for Bach. Nothing was ever recorded in Leipzig). They were great with one instrument because they all had quite a bit of experience with all the other instruments.
i wish i had time to turn my synths on. my work puts me through a bunch of online training and set milestones of completion regarding my raises. so i do as much homework as i can. when i'm done with the online they'll start sending me out of town to train. it's all user preference and compatability settings for communications equipment. i don't even think the job should exsist. the equipment doesn't accomplish as much as an iphone and it's 5000 times more complicated to program. what a piece of shit. i'm gonna run away and be ceative one day.
ReplyDeletecatsynth - I wouldn't want to answer for others, but for my part, I would draw the line between sound design and composition based on duration. An individual "sound" is much smaller than a "soundscape"; the latter seems much more like a full composition (i.e., there's an emphasis on the interplay of identifiably separate elements), rather than a building block, and thus holds my interest more. Better building blocks make for more interesting construction, but I guess I'm a big-picture guy.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, bravo on the site; I've wanted to send you a picture of my Melody playing Kitten on the Keys, but she's too easily distracted by the presence of a camera.
I'm so flustered with this whole topic I can't articulate what I want to say. In essence I would rather watch 10 year olds make star trek movies in their garage on youtube than look at pictures of synths I've seen before.
ReplyDeleteI'm tired of how people who honestly want to follow their hearts are overshadowed by people with bigger egos and paychecks.
This discussion is skirting the process vs. product debate. Do people use their synths to make "product", or as part of a "process" of synth exploration?
ReplyDeleteI think I understand both sides of this coin. I probably would have been happy with the process of plinking, thwacking, whirring, and droning on my Buchla in private or at occasional gigs, if I hadn't felt the need to "defend" the 200e with some examples. That led me to generate some "product" that I could upload to my website.
Some people enjoy the process of music/sound generation much more that generating a music/sound product.
Good assessment wavedeform. I like it.
ReplyDelete"I HATE THE 80S!!!! "
ReplyDeleteno you don't
There's no shame in collecting musical instruments anyway, keyboards or whatever floats your boat. Synth collections do have this tendency to get out of hand, though. I guess it's a lot harder to get a room full of banjoes.
ReplyDeleteWhy you get mad? Is there a limited supply?
Sometimes process dictates product. I'm sure everyone on this forum has experienced a synth sound so inspiring that it has motivated them to write a piece of music around it.
ReplyDeleteIn a 'live' situation, i struggle to comprehend why any player would need more than 3 keyboards (or 4 at an absolute maximum)?? After all, we only have two hands !!
ReplyDeletei think that once you start getting into the realms of excessive amounts of keyboards, the player really needs to question his 'concept' towards playing. It never ceases to amaze me how so many keyboard players have multiple set-ups and yet play with ONE HAND !!
By the tinme I could acquire really potent tools and sequencing means, I'd already gone through several pitfalls and had become more focused as a result. I've had a really bad time with the Intel chip changeover in Macs, but otherwise, its been good. I started on piano and like to play notes more than sounds as such, so I'm a big fan of slab synth workstations and direct softsynths with no more than two pages. That kind of orchestration is far afield from wringing out a good modular and I include the deeper aspects of a Kurzweil in that. I'd go insane if all I had was a Buchla and touch pads. Likewise, a Buchla fan might run screaming if handed a mid-line Korg. Main point: who cares? If your music sounds like a beer bottle going down a kitchen disposal or some dreary cookie-cutter trance, get bent. If its a notch up from there or better, good on you, seeker. I'd *LIKE* some more gear, but I don't really NEED more. When you reach that point of understanding, then you're most likely ready to do your best work. I hate unsane version mismatches and the like, but that aside, I look at Cikira's nice rig and think, "Gee, Chopin and Debussy would have s**t themselves blind to have had a tenth of that!" From there, its up to you anyway. Prasie Moog, yup.
ReplyDelete