"They've designed the instrument they want, and offered it to the world. Take it or leave it. I understand that. However, continuing to ignore these requests feels like hubris to me. They don't feel it is important because it doesn't fit into how they personally use the device. Not acknowledging or addressing the importance of velocity is the sort of closed philosophy I'd expect from Yamaha, not monome."
Thursday, September 13, 2007
Monome Thoughts and Ship Dates on The Stretta Procedure
"They've designed the instrument they want, and offered it to the world. Take it or leave it. I understand that. However, continuing to ignore these requests feels like hubris to me. They don't feel it is important because it doesn't fit into how they personally use the device. Not acknowledging or addressing the importance of velocity is the sort of closed philosophy I'd expect from Yamaha, not monome."
14 comments:
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Are the velocity sensitive multi-touch high-contrast/brightness LCD displays out yet?
ReplyDeletewho wrote that? looking around my room i see a bunch of amazing synth with no velocity sensitivity. get over it.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the 40h isn't a synth. How many amazing controllers do you see in your room without velocity sensitivity?
ReplyDeleteI've had the 40h for a long time. If I were going to get over it, it would have happened by now.
Do you have a 40h? I'm happy to hear the lack of velocity doesn't bother you. If it were there, you could ignore it.
monome's objection to velocity was never expressed in terms of build cost - it was always a philosophical omission.
I understand your desire for tricolor LCDs and velocity sensitive pads...they are certainly valid desires. But even if you are completely naive to manufacturing, quality control, and software design, simple logic should indicate the exponential increase in effort, both in manufacturing and programming, that multi state lights (along with maintaining those states) and scanning velocities of rows of pads would entail. Again, I'm not criticizing your suggestions, but I can completely understand monome wanting to stay tightly within their scope to not lose focus or have quality control spin away from them.
ReplyDeleteSo how much extra would you pay? Obviously, being a Warr owner, you have no problem paying a premium for unorthodox control schemes. Since its open source, and you are not a programmer or machinist, maybe you could hire one. I'm not being flip...when I want a bass with specific features, I hire a luthier. You can see the parallel, right?
If you need help finding a programmer, let me know.
Other than the driver and firmware, I haven't used what monome offers software-wise. All my video demos are using software of my design.
ReplyDeleteMulticolor LEDs are not critical to me. I only mentioned it because of the quote. Velocity, however, I'm willing to pay for. I'm not alone here, it is a common request - possibly the most popular request.
Even so, is it really build-cost escalation, or is it tunnel vision? I get the sense that Brian is really all about mlr, and velocity has no use in that world, therefore, no one else needs it.
I would assume that if it's not addressed it is not a feature.
ReplyDeleteWait a few years and I'm sure that someone will make what you are looking for.
I love my 40h. I have never once wished it had velocity sensitivity. To me, it's the soft, naturally springy feel of the buttons that makes it so wonderfully tactile. I think velocity sensitivity would ruin this feel. I don't even think that the current depth of the buttons would lend itself easily to this. In fact, for my purposes, VS would only hinder my performance, and I would turn it off.
ReplyDeleteI think velocity sensitivity is overrated in general. Especially when drum/rhythm programming (which is what many use the Monome for). I usually go back and edit my velocities after the fact with most things, anyway. Even with a lot of keyboards, unless you are very, very accurate, most notes are either loud or soft, and the in-between is sort of arbitrary. At least for me. Maybe I lack finesse. Whatever.
I'm on the Monome forums (at the very least, lurking) almost every day, reading nearly every post. I've seen this issue come up occasionally, but not that often. I think you are overstating this quite a bit. And I think Brian's responses have been reasonable. It would require a COMPLETE re-design and would cost them a lot of money.
As you know, they are a small company, and are barely getting by as it is.
Lighten up. Enjoy the product as-is, or don't use it. They can't keep changing their designs to fit every single person's unique, custom demands. I think you are part of a whiny minority.
Respectfully, you have zero basis to assume the addition of velocity would or would not affect the feel of the buttons. As far as the depth of the buttons, I can only assume you've never played a Roland R8 or Akai MPD. It doesn't take any button throw at all to establish a nice velocity feel.
ReplyDeleteBrushing off velocity sensitivity as over-rated is - well - I don't know how to respond to that.
Brian himself has stated velocity is the most popular suggestion. Velocity is not a unique or custom demand. You make it sound like I'm asking for something nobody wants or needs.
As far as I can tell the 256, 128 and 64 are a complete redesign. I mentioned velocity in regard to the 40h once, then shut up. Now I see a new design iteration without velocity, I feel compelled to restate my case.
If you read the linked article, I spend most of my time heaping praise on the product. The lack of velocity is a fair, reasonable criticism that will hopefully help create a better product without affecting current performance. Can one express legitimate criticism without being told to 'lighten up' or be told that I'm 'whiny?'
Monome now has to compete with the monster Yamaha because of the amazng exposure of the Tenori-on. If Yamaha, korg or any other of the big synth corporations were to jump into the analog modular synth pool all the great boutique businesses that supply all that stuff would go out of business.
ReplyDeleteVelocity sensitivity would turn the monome into an amazing keyboard, but with the success of the tenori-on still yet to be decided I could understand the philosophy of monome sticking too what works and is financially feasible. The monome is a versatile tool used in many, many ways. I am positive VS will one day make it to the monome. Patience.
OK, perhaps the term ‘whiny’ is an overstatement. I retract that. But I still think that you are part of a minority. You make it sound like Brian et all are ignoring this huge groundswell of discontent, which I just don’t see.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct: I have not used an R8 or MPD. I have worked with the MPC, though, and I assume the MPD is pretty much, if not exactly the same. I never have liked the feel of the MPC buttons, and never found the velocity sensitivity to be that accurate or useful. But that’s just me.
I think the point I’m trying to make is that generally the most common use for the Monome is of the beat-slicing/sequencing variety. To me (and this is just my opinion), velocity sensitivity is only really useful for expression with more traditional instruments sounds, like say a piano or string patch, or a synth sound that has a velocity sensitive attack envelope. For that, I’m gonna use a traditional keyboard midi controller anyway. It is interesting the things you can do with patterns/scales using something like a piano patch (as you mentioned), and it does induce a sort of new approach to traditional melodies/harmonies that is intriguing. But I still wouldn’t really find it useful for a performance that would require the expressiveness of VS. Again, just my opinion.
You spend about ¼ of your article ‘heaping praise’, and the rest complaining about the velocity sensitivity. I met Brian in person when I got the 40h, and had a rather lengthy discussion with him about his approach to the design. He is a very intelligent and gracious person. I’m sure he’s weighed all the design options very carefully, and has done everything possible to incorporate everyone’s suggestions and requests along the way. He is actually amazing at responding to all inquiries and is very attentive to his customer base and their desires (as you well know). Terms like ‘hubris’, ‘closed philosophy’, and ‘personal design bias’ are not really applicable in the slightest, and come across as unnecessarily harsh and insulting. You make him sound really closed-minded, which I don’t believe is even remotely true. That’s really what rubbed me the wrong way. I have a lot of respect for the guy and his philosophy, is all.
ok i saw this and just had to jump into this talk with stretta and Wingo Shackleford
ReplyDeletei usr the monme and perform with it and i belive that vs would cost a hefty price and that it would ruin mlr and 64step and alot of other programs as well if it were put into effect and i stand behind that because you could never pull off what i was doing with out the lack of vs
start whining
ReplyDeletestretta, your very nieve to the engineering and electronics involved. while its a cute thought, velocity would entail a ton of work and much more then you seem to state :::
ReplyDeleteI think the point of the monome is to be a cool grid based sequencer, not a synth or synth sequencer. If you want a velocity sensitive controller theres a ton out there. Monome is what it is and I honestly think it works great this way without the need to think about velocity. If thats the designers philosophy then so be it, just enjoy what it is.
> However, continuing to ignore these requests feels like hubris to me.
ReplyDeleteSorta like implementing half-speed recording in Digital Perfomer? Yeah...